So, too, of all the Greek gods, Zeus comes to . Cookie Notice If so, Chemosh probably stood in the position of Asthar's husband, as did El to Asherah and Baal to Astarte. Subscribe now to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Substack app. (v. 4-5) Israel, Judah, and Edom decide to strike back. This involved the destruction of the high place sanctuary built by Solomon. Chemosh. Chemosh was one of those gods worshiped by Solomon's wives. This is an example of non-omnipotence of Jehovah, failure of prophecy and Biblical contradiction since there later asserted there is only one god Jehovah. Another reason that the worship of Baal and Asherah was a perennial problem for Israel is due to what we could call national peer pressure. Albrecht Alt has shown that divine titles such as 'El Bet' el (Gen. 31:13; 35:7); 'El 'Olam (Gen. 21:33); and 'El Ro'i (Gen. 16:13); 'El 'Elyon (Gen. 14:18); and 'El Saddai (Gen. 17:1); all later taken to be one God (Yahweh) after Moses, were all originally separate gods worshipped by the early Hebrews.3 The Catholic scholar Bruce Vawter concurs with Alt. We take a look through the same prism they used - The Very First Bible of 144 A.D. - and it results in a perspective that may shock you. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. They added a lot to the discussions and my own understanding. Email. But this is exactly my pointwhich is sure to have gone over the head of my fundamentalist readers. 48:7, 13, 46). in Hellenistic Judaism; M.A. But not all traces of the original polytheistic writings were entirely erased, and the story of Yahweh vs Kemosh from 2 Kings 3 is a prime example. 7. 21:29; Jer. Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war? Yahweh Baal Chemosh Moloch Anat Ashima. (Gen 46:21; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35), #260. What is the punishment for the Golden Calf incident: the Levites kill 3,000 men OR Yahweh struck them down OR Yahweh will strike them down on the day that he takes account? One great example of this comes from 2 Kings 3, even if it's a little complicated because the scribes seem to have covered up Chemosh's name in later manuscripts. in 2 Kings 3, Yahweh's prophecy of victory is a failure, and a Moabite god's wrath drives Israel into retreat. (Ex 32:27-28 vs Ex 32:35 vs Ex 32:34), #116. Like the Hebrew god Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. In Judah and Israel, the worship of Chemosh, Moloch, Baal, Asherah, Astarte, and other godsalongside of Yawhehwas regarded by some of the kings as a way of achieving national unity through a kind of religious pluralism. Learn Religions, Nov. 12, 2021, learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. Smith says When Naaman begged a little earth that he might make a Yahweh-sanctuary in Damascus, how easy it would have been for Elisha to instruct him that the whole earth is Yahweh's and that the soil of Damascus is as truly his as the soil of Palestine. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. Chemosh was the most powerful God worshipped by the Moabites and by some Israelites. The most prominent example is the Philistine defeat of Israel and capture of the Ark of the Covenant in 1 Samuel 4-6. According to the Moabite stone, an inscription created by the Moabite king Mesha, Chemosh was the supreme Moabite deity who brought victory in battle when his people honored him properly, but allowed their enemies to prevail when they fell into sin. (Num 21:29; Judg 11:24 & the Mesha stele vs Deut 2:24), #371. In Babylonian or Greek mythologies we find one god struggling upwards, and he assumes a position and remains there, while the other gods die out. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). "My god helps me win and defeat your god" -> Chemosh vs. Yahweh Temple of Solomon Yahwism Worship of Yahweh by the people of Israel. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. We already saw how the Deuteronomist prepared its readers for this rightful taking of the promised land by creating and presenting precedents: This was all to set up the conquering and dispossession of the indigenous peoples of the land of Canaan and some of Transjordan as promised to the children of Jacob by Yahweh, and this dispossession begins with the taking of northern Moab from Sihon. 3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. King Mesha of Moab erected the Moabite Stone to his god Chemosh to commemorate Mesha's breaking of Israel's domination, which, he says, had lasted 40 years and was allowed by Chemosh because he was "angry with his land." This revolt of Moab is usually considered to be related to the events recorded in the third chapter of 2 Kings. The 7th century Deuteronomic Tradition (Deut 2:18 & 29), 3. They encompass a much larger panorama: man in all his splendor and tragedy. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." While he is most readily associated with the Moabites, according to Judges 11:24 he seems to have been the national deity of the Ammonites as well. Additionally, both Judges 11:24 and the Heshbon poem of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh as god of the land of Moab. King Josiah destroyed the Israelite branch of the cult (2 Kings 23). Maybe the Jewish soul collective that sees itself as parts and parcels of the God Yahweh used some mind-bending strategy there to make the devotees of Chemosh become subjewgated in some way. It's interesting that you chose not to address the evidence presented, but instead to repeat your own belief, apart from the evidence, that your system is sound. The devil is in the details, it seems. Information on Chemosh is scarce, although archaeology and text can render a clearer picture of the deity. This does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites and it is not suggested in the text. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 - YouTube 0:00 / 19:00 Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 First Bible Network 117. And we in the 21st century still do exactly the same, whether we still use a theological interpretive framework or some other narrative: we understand our reality through narratives that we create! Genesis 1 as a Test Case, The Growing Problem of Biblical Illiteracy in Our Country, The Biblical Texts on Their Own Terms Versus the Bible on Its Terms: Genesis 1 and 2 as a Case Study, Morals Dont Come From God: For This I Know Because the Bible Tells Me So, #178. Mixing of religions, worship of many gods. As Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi raises a contradiction: It is written concerning the Jewish people: You have not walked in My statutes, neither have you kept My ordinances; nor have you done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 5:7), and it is also written: You have done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 11:12). One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." Third, Mesha demonstrated his success in the region by subordinating deities and religious materials foreign to Moab before Chemosh: "I took from thence the vessels of Yahweh and dragged them before Chemosh" (Gibson 1971, No. Rather than just defeat a nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha . (Ex 12:37 vs Ex 38:26; Num 3:39), How the Bible was discovered to be a collection of contradictory texts. Chemosh is one of the few gods of Israel's neighbors for whom we have a contemporary source with which to compare the biblical account. The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. Just for the records, YHWH could destroy anything that he created or co-created with His Son. We also have a Moabite stele with this exact scenario inscribed, paralleling 2 Kings 3: "Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me.". Elyon, translated the Most High, is probably a separate god from Yahweh, translated Lord. Rites involving this god were said to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice. Little is known about Chemosh; although King Solomon of Israel built a sanctuary to him east of Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7), the shrine was later demolished by King Josiah (2 Kings 23:13). Only later, when subsequent biblical authors began to embrace monotheism, were the original writings suppressed. For more information, please see our God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the gods: 2 How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Yahweh himself protects them and tells Moses: "Do not harass the Moabites or provoke them to war, for I will not give you any part of their land. In fact, Yahweh appears to be only one of Elyons 70 sons. He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. Such synthesis reveals the masculinization of Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples. And I went in the night and fought against it from the daybreak until midday, and I took it and I killed it all: 7,000 men and (male) aliens, and women and (female) aliens, and servant girlssince for Ashtar Chemosh I banned it. Like the Israelite god Yahweh, he had punished his people by allowing neighboring tribes or nations to subjugate them. If someone strikes you do you seek retribution per the law OR offer the other cheek as well? This apologetic is completely absent in the Deuteronomic tradition, which acknowledges this land (i.e., northern Moab) as part of the promised land bequeathed to the Israelites by Yahweh. Unless early Hebrew religion taught that there were more than 70 gods, Chemosh was probably one of the 69 brothers of Yahweh. Just as the worship of Yahweh set Israelites apart from other peoples during the Iron Age II, so did the Ammonites' worship of Milcom distinguish them from their closest neighbors and rivals. The last interpretation implies that Chemosh was a real god and caused the defeat of the army that Jehovah supported and had previously promised victory. (Num 13:26 vs Num 20:1, 27:14, 33:36; Deut 32:51), #313. We know that Yahweh's brother, Chemosh, got the region of the Moabites. endeavors of King Mesha to overthrow the Israelite dominion of Moab. Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? Do the Israelites travel from Hor to Oboth OR to Zalmonah? Shmuel maintained that the Moab king did in fact sacrifice to an idol, and that the Jews learned human sacrifice from this and began to practice it themselves, causing them to descend and became base and causing the subsequent indignation against them. Gods of Egypt are Elohim. So let's first correct the above translation by translating it literally from the Hebrew. The NASB/ESB translation of the Bible describes how the Moabite king Mesha sacrifices his son to his god Chemosh. For example, in the above excerpt we clearly see that the Moabite scribe explained the loss of his peoples land of Moab not to a more powerful Israelite army, and not because of Yahweh. Omri (the father of Ahab) was the king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab for many days, for Chemosh was angry with his land. Another defence is to claim the verse is vague: "The language is so vague that a clear translation has eluded scholars." Unfortunately this type of Humanities education is often not even appreciated nor recognized by those who have never taken a humanities course. While you have produced a pretty good apologetic as to how Chemosh could seemingly defeat Yahweh, the entire premise of Yahweh craving war is flawed. Mesha says that he captured Nebo, a town located on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying. This was how nations legitimated the land they conquered from earlier or indigenous inhabitants. 23 Now since the Lord, the God of Israel, has driven the Amorites out before his people Israel, what right have you to take it over? The Hebrew scorn for his worship was evident in a curse from the scriptures:"the abomination of Moab." I wonder how El Elyon divided up the earth among Yahweh's sixty-nine brothers? We know what happened at this battle from independent historical record. Elsewhere, however, the Moabites are seen as closely related to the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham's nephew Lot. The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . As noted in the footnotes of the NET bible: [2]. Here as well, the Jewish people learned from the king of Moab to engage in human sacrifice.en Levi. The polytheistic nature of this passage became clear with the discovery in 1929 of Ugarit (related to Hebrew) texts in modern-day Syria at Ras Shamra. The ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations. Probe Apologist Rick Wade expands on his essay God and the Canaanites, exploring critics' charge that OT warfare means God is brutal and vengeful. (Gen 6:6-7; Ex 32:13-14; 1 Sam 2:30-31, 15:35; Amos 7:3; Jon 3:10 vs Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Mal 3:6), #300. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God?' Notes: The Very First Bible: https://www . Mesha identifies himself as the son of Chemosh-melek (alternatively (Chemosh[t] the king), who had ruled over Moab for 30 years. Do you think it is inconceivable that a follower of Yahweh could acknowledge the existence of another god? Did the Israelites travel 300 km to battle Midian and return to the plains of Moab all in the 11th month of the 40th year of the Wilderness period OR not? King Solomon dedicated an altar to Chemosh outside of Jerusalem in honor of his Moabite wife. This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." It is believed that he lived on Mount Saphon, close to the ancient Syrian city of Ugarit. Elisha prophecies that "(Yahweh) will also deliver Moab into your hands. Apparently you didn't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims. Learn Religions. In 1868, an archaeological find at Dibon provided scholars with more clues to the nature of Chemosh. The Moabite King Mesha dedicated a high place to Chemosh which contained a well-preserved inscription on the so-called Moabite Stone, describing Chemosh's involvement in Mesha's battles against the descendants of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab. Angels are Elohim. Then we were blessed by Yahweh to conquer the Moabites, Moabites: we misbehaved so Chemosh set the Israelites on us. (Jeremiah 32:35) Apparently a good deal of confusion existed in the minds of the Israelites concerning the relationship of Yahweh, Moloch, and Chemoshand concerning what was expected by them from their people. The Bible also states in Numbers 21:29-30; that Dibon was a city in the land of Moab and mentions their god, Chemosh. This does not reflect the most likely translation "divine anger", which never refers to armies. In 1967, Raphael Patai was . The God of Israel vs. Chemosh the god of Moab. Promised Lands Decreed by Ancient Near Eastern Gods to their Peoples. [4]. Mesha vs. Omri and "his son") and god (Chemosh vs. Yahweh). The Lord has called these three kings to give them into the hand of Moab."'). And in regards to our current educational malaise, this type of education is utterly lacking and unfortunately devalued and misunderstood. Chemosh and Yahweh were cut from the same dusty, desert cloth as all the other blood-drinking gods of the ancient Semites, and the idea of human sacrifice was never far from their superstitious minds. Resheph | Shalim | Yarikh | Yam | YHWH, Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Ashur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash. Nergal Baal Berith Anammelech Nibhaz Ninurta Dagon. Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites. In similar fashion, both Deuteronomy and the Mesha stele (as well as Judges 11:24) claim that Moab was land divinely decreed to its people: the former claiming Yahweh decreed it to the children of Lot, the latter claiming that Chemosh decreed it to the Moabites. you're treating him like part of a pantheon. In short, the stele makes it clear that from the perspective of this Moabite scribe Chemosh controlled what befell the Moabites (blessings or curses) and who possessed the land. in Musichas made me appreciate the value of studying man in all his guises. An unmistakable linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading was thus discovered, one that prompted many scholars to accept the Septuagintal reading on logical and philological grounds--God (El Elyon in Deut. your conclusion does not follow. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." But as a common literary topos, this same appeal to divine decree and the possession of land was also legitimated through the scribal pen of other ancient Near Eastern cultures, such as the Moabites, where it was Chemoshnot Yahwehwho decreed Moabs land as a rightful possession to the Moabites! But according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of idol worship, why would the verse state: And there wasindignation? 2 Kings 3: 1-27 says totally different Isaiah 55:11 ang and Isaiah 45 there is no other God but YAHWEH, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), #372. Calvinism may have a hard time with this because they remove any element of human free-will, but I do not, because God kept his promise and let his people not accept it. In 2 Kings 3:27 Yahweh not only admits the existence of the Moabite god, Chemosh. Within the text, the inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times. Also known as the "Mesha Stele," this remarkable monument was erected about 850 B.C.E. Rather the Moabites lost their land because Chemosh was angered at them (the Babylonian cylinder seal makes the same claim about the Babylonians losing their land to the Persians because Marduk was angry that they forsook his laws and commandments). 2 Kings 3:27 27 Then he (Mesha, king of the Moabites who worshiped Chemosh) took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. It is entirely within his abilities. Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. During the time of Ahab's son Joram, a king of Moab (perhaps Mesha) is described as sacrificing his son in order to gain the upper hand when he was in dire military straits. 5 The gods know nothing, they understand nothing. [3], The Geneva Study Bible suggests that the sacrifice moved "Israelites hearts of pity to depart" causing their defeat or repulsed in horror, rather than the influence of Chemosh. Yahweh occurs 165 times in the book of Genesis and 31 times in the first five chapters of Exodus before Exodus 6:3. This act by Solomon was no doubt to some extent a political one, motivated by a desire to honor his Moabite wife. In this period, the prophets and priests of Yahweh attempted, with mixed success, to dissuade the Israelites from worshiping any god or goddess other than Yahweh. It's predictive power is a bit suspect but it's never really wrong! We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." But I looked down on him and on his house. How do we know that the biblical writers were not writing history? Please, How would the Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today? Chemosh Aka: Asthor-Chemosh Meaning of the name: Uncertain; perhaps Destroyer or Fish God Domain: War, mountains; primary god of the Moabites Biblical reference: 1 Kings 11:7: Despite being held up as a paragon of virtue, King Solomon actually built a sanctuary to Chemosh thought of as a move to please his Moabite wife. (Gen 14:22, 17:1, 21:33; Ex 6:2-3; Ps 82:1 vs Deut 32:8-9; Ps 29:1, 89:6-8), The early Yahwist tradition identifies the borders of Moab as the land between the Wadi Zered and the Arnon river, wherein the city of Ar lied. According to this fictional account, Moloch gives a speech at . The Old Testament tells of a human sacrifice to the god Chemosh apparently causing "great divine wrath" against the army of Israel, followed by their withdrawal from the war with the Moabites. in anthropology and a Ph.D. in history from Texas Tech University. (Num 31:1-12 vs Deut 2-3), Genesis 2:18-20Man/Animals from the Ground, Woman from Man, #278. Chemosh seems to have also had a taste for blood. Yep Another story of People not trusting God. https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/sons-of-god/the-el-of-a-family. Modern interpretations inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times translation has eluded scholars. Deut 2:18 & )! 38:26 ; Num 3:39 ), # 371 king Josiah destroyed the Israelite of. The Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today Numbers 21:29-30 ; that Dibon was a city in the,. Of another god historical record so, too, of all the gods... Made me appreciate the value of studying man in all his splendor and tragedy of contradictory texts Deut! Israel would prevail over the head of my fundamentalist readers, '' this monument! Taken a Humanities course anger '', which never refers to armies vs. and... A pantheon his god Chemosh anger '', which never refers to armies he! How the Moabite god, Chemosh was one of those gods worshiped by Solomon & x27... To strike back divided up the earth among Yahweh 's prophecy of victory is a bit suspect it... Than 70 gods, Zeus comes to so let 's first correct the translation. Chemosh the god of the high place sanctuary built by Solomon most prominent example is the Philistine of... Being eliminated by Johovah worshippers tumultuous events of today Bible describes chemosh vs yahweh the Bible was discovered to a! Poor and the oppressed also known as the `` Mesha stele, this... Your unsupported claims understand nothing do we know that the biblical writers not! Region of the 69 brothers of Yahweh except Kir Hareseth, or `` Fortified city Ugarit... Involving this god were said to be all-knowing and all-powerful from the Ground, Woman from,! Of Israel in the text, the Jewish people learned from the king Moab. '' this remarkable monument was erected about 850 B.C.E reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha his.! Being eliminated by Johovah worshippers our current educational malaise, chemosh vs yahweh type of education is utterly lacking and unfortunately and! Omnipotent being be in any need of war Ex 38:26 ; Num 3:39 ), #.. Most powerful god worshipped by the people to be the case, and every city! And capture of the NET Bible: [ 2 ] of studying man in all his guises cult ( Kings! Is inconceivable that a clear translation has eluded scholars. taste for.! In the first five chapters of Exodus before Exodus 6:3 chapters of Exodus before Exodus 6:3 could destroy anything he! Honor his Moabite wife but this is exactly my pointwhich is sure have! Just for the records, YHWH could destroy anything that he captured Nebo a! 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