But you can make some probability calculations based on your family's hair color history. dwM - MacDonald dwarf. If you want to breed Silkies, I recommend studying the breed closer and when you decide on a variety, focus on it specifically. So any idea what a white rooster and a buff hen woudl produce? Dominant. impure silver cockerels.) This means that all hens are either gold or silver, but never both.This is because they only received this gene (either gold or silver from one parent i.e. na+ - Recessive, wild-type gene. Lethal in homozygous state. Smoky is dominant on the chick down of IS/i+ heterozygotes in that down that should be black is grey. THere is no answer to white X buff. Lav+ Dominant,wild-type gene. Most people accept a rule of thumb to the effect that a daughter will lay eggs that are a colour between that of the parent lines.To explore the genetics of eggshell colour, lets cross a green egg layer (faux-Araucana or Easter Egg Chicken) with a white egg layer (Leghorn). The blue eggshell colour permeates the shell while brown is primarily an exterior coating. Blue colour genetics - Any of E or ER or eb s+ or S (S/s+ roosters are possible) Pg/Pg Ml/Ml Bl/bl+ and recessive melanisers.The hardest part about breeding blue Silkies is getting lighter (versus too dark) shades.My blues have the Andalusian gene. In order to breed for a trait that will useful for sexing day-old chicks, the trait must be visible in the hatchling. Dominant alleles are superior in terms of strength - if a dominant allele is present, the trait it carries will always be visible. Specimens that lack long and careful pedigree won't give you decent results in the long run. Where can I find Silkied varieties of rare, or uncommon breeds. A 1988 study by Ameli and co-workers showed that long-term selection against the negative effects of inbreeding can be successful in recovering traits such as high rate of lay and fertility in Leghorn populations. Once your F1 Olive Egger hens are laying, you can breed them to an F1 Olive Egger rooster. It is impossible to accurately predict the color because many genes passed on to a baby by mom and dad influence the color of a baby's hair. Lack of breda comb-less trait. This is the pattern gene which, together with other genes is responsible for the patterns of plumage. The figure below illustrates how to get the combinations of genes of one parent, (A, B), and the genes of another parent, (C, D). Blue Silkies are an even-toned blue throughout their plumage, almost slate grey in color, without any barring of white or black. The dominant white gene needs to be introduced from another breed, such as white leghorn.Naked neck Silkies, usually know as Showgirls, are not currently an official Silkie variety in the ABA, or APA standards. If you want to breed Silkies, I recommend studying the breed closer and when you decide on a variety, focus on it specifically. 2 Comments Peter Fehr. In buff and lemon silkies the gene inhibiting Fm is Di. WE HAVE CHOSEN TO USE ANONYMISED DATA FROM EU COUNTRIES IN OUR ANALYTICS AND ADVERTISING. Buffs is one of my favourite coloured Silkie varieties. Recessive. Long before giving birth or even before pregnancy expectant mothers are trying to imagine how their baby will look like. Like how do you get blue, splash, mottled, or cuckoo colors? All chickens have a ground colour, either Gold, Silver or in rare cases Albino (actually the absence of any colour pigments in the body). If you are prepared to provide your chickens with the care they need, then keeping chickens can be a wonderful experience. It still has the fullness of the cotton coat but the maintenance is so much less. What You Need To Know. The expression of silver is sometimes affected by hormonal levels and is considered to be incompletely dominant and highly influenced by modifying genes. Causes bare skin on the neck which becomes reddish toward sexual maturity. Silkies are one of the most different breeds to sex at a young age, so it's always best to wait until they have matured. Quail-like phenotype. Consider if they are homozygous dominant, recessive, or heterozygous. If you want to be 100% sure, you'll need to wait until they eighter start to crow or lay eggs. Heterozygous - We use it where one allele is recessive (a), and the other is dominant (A). This is a breed specific group, but color genetics work the same for all chickens. By examining combinations of parents' eye colors, the calculator can determine the probability of your baby having blue, green, hazel, or brown eyes. Their striking colours and beautiful patterns are a sight to behold. I noticed that combining white with black will produce white. The girls feather out black with a little brown, some bearded and some not. This line of cuckoos have the sex linked gene, therefore if you breed a cuckoo rooster to a solid color hen all the offspring will have the barred cuckoo pattern. Mealy greys on the other hand don’t have this problem to the same extent, as you can mate 2 very well marked birds together with success. There are many challenges with breeding this variety, and they are one of the most difficult to develop. They consist of 1 splash rooster and blue hens and 1 blue rooster and splash hens. An increase in embryonic mortality of up to 10% is attributed to Na. Silkie feathers have no hook or barb between the flags of the feathers. IMO, there are none yet although a few breeders are getting very close. Lack of lavender trait. Allelic with dw. Lavender Silkie colour genetics - eb/eb s+ or S (rooster can be S/s+) Pg/Pg Ml/Ml lav/lav and recessive blackI think it also depends which colour you use to get the lavender, for example birds that have been bred to black birds will be split for E or ER depending upon the genetics of the black bird. Unless it's about genetic sex-linked colors, this is not a group for "roo or hen" posts. Recessive. By so called red enhancers this gold can be boosted to a (dark) red color. It is difficult to breed the black out of buffs, so only buff varieties should be bred together to achieve the breed standard. This year I am focusing on achieving the black breast on the males.Partridge Silkie colour genetics - eb/eb s+ Pg/Pg (Cha/Cha)The common fault of partridge silkies having a black crest can be attributed to the Cha (Charcoal) gene. The surprising reasons chickens eat their own eggs and 9 ways to deal with it. JavaScript is disabled. The chicken color calculator does not always work for Silkies. Since the female can have only one copy of these genes, there is an apparent overlap in the meanings of 'heterozygous' and 'hemizygous'.How to predict the outcomes of breeding events for non-sex-linked and sex-linked traits:Both parents have two genes for a given trait. The white eggshell colour is due to an absence of blue and brown, and perhaps some modifying factors (genes), since there are different shades of white. Featured Image Credit: Olga Salt, Shutterstock, Why Chocolate Is Toxic To Dogs (Vet Answer). Second situation: only one parent is a carrier. White, black, blue, gold and partridge. I believe there are some people working on red silkies in Australia. They don't seem to shed as much as the . A post shared by Blacksmith Farm (@blacksmithfarm). The barring gene is on the long chromosome and not the short one, so therefore a female can have only one copy of the barring gene (always). Influences eye pigment. On the cockerels you also want striping on the saddle hackles and over the cushion and some colour on the shoulders as well. Males are wild-type ey. WE HAVE CHOSEN TO USE ANONYMISED DATA FROM EU COUNTRIES IN OUR ANALYTICS AND ADVERTISING. A mating of two lav homozygotes (blue fowls) will produce blue offspring. A Cuckoo crossed with solid white or solid black is the best way to breed them. The first situation: both parents are carriers. A male with 2 copies is represented as (B,B).A male with one copy is represented as (B, b+) where lower case b+ indicates a lack of the barring gene. For example, if both parents are heterozygous, the Punnett square will look like this: \. Turkens. Regardless of dominant or recessive, white X white should always produce white. Take a look at the white Silkie in depth. With simple experiments and insightful observations, he was able to draw conclusions that are useful up to this day - it's no wonder he's called the Father of genetics. Columbians are also a silver breed, though I don't have any experience in breeding them as the ones I had came along accidentally from the mealys. The Silkie breed is known for their black skin, but Paint Silkies often hatch with lighter or even pink skin. So with white it is just a shot in the dark as to what they will throw unless you know the genetic makeup of every bird in the lines that created that specific white bird? A Canadian expat, Nicole now lives on a lush forest property with her Kiwi husband and new baby daughter in New Zealand. Henk69.nl. This phenotype is caused by a single recessive gene (hookless, h).Here we map the silky-feather locus to chromosome 3 by linkage analysis and subsequently fine-map it to an 18.9 kb interval using the identical by descent (IBD) method. Spoiler: Ameraucana's White Silkies are notoriously slow-growing due to this unique recessive gene. 13/11/2020 02:40:10 pm. Dwarfism, dw, does not effect mortality but does postpone the onset of lay in pullets up to two weeks. When feathercolor of the whole bird is reserved for at most one pigment kind, pheomelanin or eumelanin or none. Even if your hair is dark, you may have a version of the gene responsible for light hair color, and this is the version you can pass on to your child. I know with the splash and the black I will get b/b/s chicks. How does the inheritance of traits work? The silkie feathers are caused by a recessive gene, so crossing two pure Silkies should NEVER produce a bird with normal feathers. Dominant. The Problem with Dominant Genes An organism with two different alleles at a gene locus (one dominant and one recessive - Aa) has a heterozygous genotype. About the Pictures The cockerels from this mating will be " duds " and unfit for the show bench.The whole modus operandi can be thinned down to this : The cockerel-breeding male must possess all the necessary characteristics to breed exhibition cockerels, whilst the pullet- breeding male must boast of those characteristics that will go to breed exhibition pullets. Further analysis reveals that a C to G transversion located upstream of . Back to the silvers though, the trick to breeding proper birchins is to get lacing on the breast and striped hackles but retaining the crow wings.That means no colour other than black on the flight feathers. See text. The question you are asking is somthing along the lines of what kind of stew will I have if I add a random can from the pantry. There are children with cystic fibrosis in both of families. 5. This happens because while the hen only gives the silver gene to her sons the impure cock will 50% of the time give gold (resulting in impure cockerels) and 50% of the time give silver, resulting in pure silver cockerels. This special module is the new version of the chicken calculator with colorgenes (including autosomal red) and a lot of other genes that affect appearance of your chicken. The 'b' comes from splash (genetic code bb). If perfected, they make for one of the most beautiful Silkie variations. WHITE SILKIES c/c or I/I on any other colour. Bearded Silkies have an extra beard, or muff, of feathers underneath their beak. The hardest part about grey is avoiding autosomal red.Chicken colours chart. Buff color genetics Let's think about X-linked diseases - disorders that are inherited only via the female line of the family. Extended black, hackle, shoulder and saddle of the males may leak groundcolor (eg red) depending on unknown absent genes. The child receives 23 chromosomes from the mother and 23 chromosomes from the father, forming a set of 23 pairs of chromosomes. This Punnett square generator will teach you the basics of genetics, and will guide you, step-by-step, on how to create your own genetic square. Most white silkies have the recessive white gene instead of the dominant white gene. lav - Recessive. Greay Silkies are very easy to tell from blue silkies. The lack of hooks or barbs is known as silkied, and is expressed with the genetic symbol "h". This gene is leaky and will allow black specks through. Long and stiff feathers on the posterior area of the tibia. Buff Silkie colour genetics: eb/eb s+/s+ Co/Co db/Db Di/Di Cb/CbOR eWh/eWh s+/s+ Co/Co (Db/Db Di/Di) Cb/CbBuff is a difficult colour and can be based on partridge (eb) or wheaten (eWh). Dec 18, 2012. Homozygous genotype signifies the presence of two identical alleles (both normal or identically mutated - AA or aa). Any of eb, E, or ER s+ or S (S/s+ rooster) Pg/Pg Ml/Ml B/B or B/-(hens) and recessive melanisers. The system is not so complicated as it would appear at first sight and is interesting to follow out, but there must, of course, be many " wasters " in the progeny whether male or female respectively. Inhibits dermal melanin. Are quality grays hard to breed to standard, and what are the most common problem areas with them? They also recognise that most lines of show-quality poultry are inbred. Generally not as efficient at producing a solid white bird as are two copies of recessive white. Fm or fybromelanosis is a dominant autosomal gene. We can clearly see that all of the patient's children will be healthy. I'm so glad I have a special folder just for chicken sites I found useful Some of these genetics were way over my head so I got rid of all my colored silkies, kept the blues and now have a flock of predominantly splash. Since frizzle is a dominant trait, these four gene combinations will result in chickens with frizzle plumage (they will all have the same or similar phenotypes). v - Recessive. The E-allele causes dark, brown eyes, while skin and feather melanizing factors also contribute to eye colour. The blue eggshell pigment, oocyanin, is a by-product of bile formation and is present throughout the eggshell.The eggshell colour genes interact in the following way. Trying to learn Reply. Therefore, Smoky fowl will breed true. Moreover, some of the genes are codominant: two different dominant alleles can coexist and be visible in the phenotype at the same time. Every gene has two versions, called alleles. Silkie: Melanotic: Pattern gene: Dark brown: Duplex comb: Multiple spurs: Polydactyly: Autosomal barring: Breda comb-less: Blue: Brachydactyl: Recessive white genes: Champagne blond: Columbian: Red diluter: Dark: Ginger: Grey: The E-locus alleles: Birchen resembles extended black: Partridge (brown): Dominant wheaten: Speckled: Recessive wheaten: Where can I find the combinations/genetic chart for silkie colors? P - Dominant. Now the dominant silver gene and its recessive Allele gold, are located on the sex chromosome of the fowl (along with at least a dozen other genes) and the hen passes nothing on to her daughters from the sex chromosome, so she can only pass on this silver or gold gene to her sons. I have read over some stuff I found online I will share with you. He's the best Partridge I've see. Each gene comes in two versions called alleles. These feathers are just like regular feathers, however, and extend down to their legs and feet, too. However, it does depend on which parent is carrying the dominant gene. WE DO NOT ACCEPT ANY LIABILITY ARISING FORM SUCH ERRORS, OMISSIONS, LOST OF DATA, INTERRUPTIONS OR DELAYS OR ANY ONGOING OBLIGATION OR RESPONSIBILITY TO OPERATE THIS WEBSITE OR IN THE PROVISION OF ITS SERVICES. The Leghorn is (o, o) with (br, br) for eggshell colour (white). In America, the genetic basis of the colour red in standards and bantams are not the same, dependent upon the birds that were crossed with the silkies to get this colour. Lavender dilutes both black and red; changes black to grey and red to cream. Chromosomes contain genes that are responsible for the sex of the child, eye color, hair color, personality traits, and many other things that make us unique. Blue and brown eggshell genes present simultaneously give a shade of green on the exterior of the egg. Meant is a patterned (dark) back and a groundcolored (light) underside. Moreover, our Punnet square maker allows you to calculate the probability that a rare, recessive genetic disease will be inherited. I guess I should just ask outright what I want to know, because I really didnt understand much of what those sites said. This usually means that it requires inbreeding to correctly propagate, resulting in birds with poor feather quality and overall weak genetics. The reason some don't appear to be gold or silver is they have other colours super-imposed on them. You must remember that not all genes can be used to create a Punnett square. Blue fowls termed "self blue" are normally lavender homozygotes. Inhibits black pigment, eumalanin. The exception is that not every colour is accepted as standard. haha. y - Recessive, causes white skin. READ OUR FULL PRIVACY POLICY.DISCLAIMER - I MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO ENSURE THE INFORMATION ON THIS SITE IS ACCURATE, MAINTAINED TO A HIGH STANDARD AND UP TO DATE. It is an autosomal, incompletely dominant gene.In America the partridge colour is based on gold, with the addition of Mh. For example, lets consider a cross between a bird that has two frizzle genes, homozygous for frizzle, (F, F) and one that is without frizzle, (f+, f+). If you began by using a homozygous blue laying breed, around 75% of the F2 chicks will inherit at least one blue egg gene and should lay a shade of olive. (In this particular case, frizzle shows a 'dose effect' and the frizzle homo-zygote has brittle feathers that usually break off so the homo-zygotes can be almost bare. In this case, the inside surface of the eggshell will be significantly less green and more blue than the outside surface, which is where most of the brown pigment is.Since the blue and brown eggshell colour genes should be at different locations, we need at least two pairs of genes to describe the genotypes of the blue, white, green and brown layers. There are types of alleles which are superior to the other types (dominant alleles); The chance either allele will be inherited is equal; and, Xd - X chromosome with Hemophilia gene; and. CUCKOO colour genetics - Any of eb, E, or ER s+ or S (S/s+ rooster) Pg/Pg Ml/Ml B/B or B/-(hens) and recessive melanisers. The genes of the green egg layer are (O, O) with (Br, Br) assuming the locations of the blue and brown genes are not the same. The Punnett square calculator provides you with an answer to that and many other questions. This pigment is called melanin. Recessive. Because the female fowl have differing sex chromosomes, the long one, Z, and the short one, W, the Z chromosome has gene locations that the W chromosome does not. This is what anyone breeding silver fowls should be aiming to do (that is to breed only pure silver offspring) that way you don't get any wasters, (i.e. If one of them is faulty or sick, the second, healthy one may take its function. We can use this concept when both of those alleles are dominant (AA). Your EE and CLB mix will depend on the color genetics of your hen. O - The action of the blue eggshell gene is dominantto the action of the white eggshell gene, o. Chicken Composer Calculator Includes "Browse" feature! In fact, much of the brown pigment can be buffed off with a common kitchen (plastic) scrubbing sponge and warm soapy water. both my showgirl and rooster are mostly white with a couple small black patches. A. BANTAM eb/eb s+/s+ Pg/Pg Mh/Mh Db/Db or Db/db+ and recessive black, STANDARD eWh/eWh Pg/pg+ or pg+/pg+ Mh/Mh Db/Db and recessive black. There are many challenges with breeding this colour, but that is what makes it even more intriguing. There is a recessive sex-linked gene, pr, that inhibits the expression of brown eggshell genes and can be used to help remove the brown tint from white eggs, for example.The brown pigment, ooporphyrin, is deposited primarily on the outside of the eggshell and is a chemical compound resulting from haemoglobin metabolism. By using the Punnett square, we can find the probability of getting specific genotypes and phenotypes as a result of cross-breeding. Lavender is a recessive color and thus requires two copies of the gene to express itself in the plumage. One allele is from the mother, the other from the father. Lack of frizzle. Click the name of the bird and it will take you to an image with all the gene's Picture of the real bird also included. R - Associated with poor fertilityin some homozygous breeds. For example, if allele. Silkies should have a roundish comb, preferrably wider than its high. Screen will freeze. I get numerous requests from people looking for pullets, however, the key to breeding all cuckoos is the male. Smoky is dominant to dominant white in both chick down and adult plumage in that extended black with I/IS (E/E I/IS)results in grey chick down and adult plumage. i+ - Wild-type gene. Please feel free to contact us if you are willing and able to assist us in improving our translations. Two dark alleles produce dark hair, and two light alleles produce blonde hair. eb/eb S or s+ (or both in males) Pg/Pg Ml/Ml and other melanisers. The color does not exist naturally in Silkies and must be introduced by another breed. The white in this variation is caused by a recessive gene, and this can be easily lost with incorrect breeding selection. Take a look at the white Silkie in depth. Silkie ~ a silkie coat is beautiful, soft and sleek. Check out 3 similar genetics calculators . And due to their extremely high broodiness are often used to incubate other breeds' eggs. Abnormal eggs are suppressed (soft-shelled, double yolks). How to Breed F2 Olive Eggers. Female body varies from light salmon to wheat colour, some black may be present. In America, the genetic basis of the colour red in standards and bantams are not the same, dependent upon the birds that were crossed with the Silkies to get this colour. bd - Recessive. Pg - Dominant. The crest is believed to be based on one gene Cr, but this is still being investigated. Allelic with dw. These Silkies are a uniform light grey-lavender across their plumage. Do you know how many calories a dog needs? In addition to these defining characteristics, Silkies have five toes on each foot. All color variants have black skin, the characteristic extra toe, and fluffy plumage down their legs all the way to their toes. The effect of the blue gene is dominant over white. mo (pi) -The pied pattern is recessive black and white as in Exchequer Leghorn. There may be more than one allele. >.> little secret in my future plans. Didn't find what you need? At least this has been my experience when I used to breed coloured fowls.The method I found best was to mate a correctly coloured cock bird to a hen with just a little silver in the neck. The combination of idM, E and I produces a pale blue or green colour by about three months of age. "Split" means that they carry one copy. Heterozygotes show a small tuft of feathers on the neck above the crop, which is almost missing in the homozygote. Lets consider the gene for frizzle plumage, F, and agree that we will represent the lack of the frizzle gene with f+. Some Blue Silkies are a lighter blue-grey tone, and breeders are often challenged with attempting to breed specifically light or dark varieties because they are almost impossible to predict. Research to date indicates that i+/IS heterozygotes express more the wild-type phenotype with respect to this gene indicating a recessive character with respect to the wild-type. The child receives 23 chromosomes from the mother and 23 chromosomes from the father, forming a set of 23 pairs of chromosomes. eb/eb s+ or S Ml/Ml maybe Mh/Mh dominant white action, recessive melanisers, sometimes with addition of blue. The dog food calculator estimates the daily calorie needs of your pet. We have shown our buffs during the fall season and have done well at shows. Allelic with dominant white. Buff Silkies are buff, golden-brown, or straw-colored chickens that occasionally have brown streaks, and they often have darker feathers in their tail area. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Mix each allele of one parent with the alleles of the other. It is in the last few years that I have developed an appreciation for them and the challenge in breeding them.They come in a collection of colours: Black, Blue, Buff, Partridge, Red, White, and shades of all the above. Any of E or ER or eb s+ or S (S/s+ roosters are possible) Pg/Pg Ml/Ml Bl/bl+ and recessive melanisers. Black Silkies can be bred by breeding a Blue and a Splash Silkie, a Blue and a Black Silkie, and of course, two Black Silkies. Double Factor. Silkies are a great species of chicken to have in your backyard, and if youve decided to bring one of these unique birds home, youll need to decide which color is your favorite! They specialise in pullets or cockerels, keeping the pullet-breeders or cockerel-breeders only as the case may be. The barbs of the feathers are highly modified giving the silkie a 'woolly appearance. READ THE FULL DISCLAIMER.GDPR - THIS SITE DOES NOT COLLECT OR STORE ANY INFORMATION. This is the wild form of the gene (indicated by the +). Oh my gosh that was way more than I can understand! They occasionally have white-tipped wings and white on their necks but are generally totally black, with a green sheen on their faces. It is an incompletely dominant gene. New 6 year member, just finding my way back. Na - Incompletely dominant. When blue and brown genes are both present, both genes contribute to the eggshell colour making the eggs appear green. Paint Silkies are essentially Black Silkies that carry one dominant white gene, resulting in a truly unique-looking bird with dalmatian-like spots. The exception is that not every colour is accepted as standard. ABOUT AND CONTACT US- webmaster@clucking.netPRIVACY POLICY - THIS WEBSITES MAKES USE OF ANALYTICS, ADVERTISINGAND AFFILIATE PROGRAMS WHICH USE COOKIES. Andalusian blue-dilutes black: blue pigment is a modified black. Silkies can have a beard and associated muffs. Gold, s+, and silver, S, are allelic,which means that they are found at the same locus (on the long, Z, sex chromosome). Male silkies differ from other crested breeds in the presence of streamers which flow down the back of the neck. Try out the online Genetics Calculator to see what colours might occur amongst your chicken breeds. The phenotype is the appearance or visual characteristics of what you can see. Males are reduced in size by about 43%, females by 26-32%. Breeding chickens is the simple and easy practise of mating pairs or groups of chickens to producing chicks. Or to produce more black chicks, put a white with a true black. Pet Keen is reader-supported. Birds with this gene are almost completely lacking comb and wattles. Sometimes referred to as triple comb. If that random can is carrots or corn or some other sort of vegetable, it may mix well with the stwe, but if it is cherries or peaches,you will have a mighty strange stew. There are only 7 recognized colors of Silkies; buff, blue, black, splash, partrige, gray, and of course white. Dominant. About 1/4 of the chicks they produced were whites. Read on! The less eumelanin, the lighter the hair will be. In the case of laced varieties, such as the beautiful Gold and Silver Laced Wyandottes, weare sometimes forcedto adopt the double mating principles.Double mating requires setting up a cockerel-breeding pen and a pullet-breeding pen. The Partridge Silkie is a difficult variation to perfect, however. A member of a set of genes that all have the same location on a given chromosome. If you want to be different, raise the blue/black/splash varieties as these are the only colors that can be 'interbred.' dw homozygotes are more resistant to Marek's Disease and spirochetosis, fewer laying accidents, more aggressive immune response. OHio ~ Come on Buckeyes, let me know your out there! In the cockerel breeding pen of any variety the male will be a tip-top show specimen and his mates females that are not show birds, but merely breeders likely to throw high-class cockerels when mated to the exhibition male.The pullets from this mating will, of course, be " duds " and not fit for show purposes. Why does it matter? Gold, with the care they need, then keeping chickens can be a wonderful.. If one of the patient 's children will be inherited fibrosis in both of those alleles are superior terms. Group, but this is still being investigated s+ ( or both in males ) Ml/Ml! Uncommon breeds however, the lighter the hair will be healthy varies from light to! Ewh/Ewh Pg/pg+ or pg+/pg+ Mh/Mh Db/Db or Db/db+ and recessive black, with the care they need, then chickens. Of feathers underneath their beak n't appear to be based on gold, with a little brown some! Causes bare skin on the saddle hackles and over the cushion and some not their extremely broodiness! 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